Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: That's nice counting down.
Yeah, but I don't think we'll use it.
You look cute, Chris. Don't worry, that's fine.
Right, good evening, everyone.
Is another episode of three pronged. Today. We've.
We don't have one of the prongs because he's out gallivanting. Where is he again?
[00:00:26] Speaker B: I can't remember where he said, but I think there's too many goats on for him tonight. I think there's too much goats on.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Yeah, actually, yeah, he's slacking somewhere. But today we're joined by two guests. So I guess we don't really need, need Neil. Today we've got Chris, as usual. And we've also got another Chris and lovely Zoe.
So, guests, tell us a little bit about yourselves.
[00:00:52] Speaker C: Good, Zoe. Ladies first.
[00:00:54] Speaker D: My name's Zoe. I am 32 years old.
I only started farming about, God, 2015, I dipped a toe in, I probably would say. And then for the past five years, I've been farming full time.
Before that, I was a hairdresser in London, in the west end.
And then, yeah, when I met Chris Maver, half, he kind of, if I'm totally honest, I was never into farming. It was just his thing. And it just was a bit fun at the weekend.
But now I'm fully immersed in it. I couldn't imagine going back to cutting people's hair.
Um, I am the nurturing one on the farm.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: I like to still cut Chris's hair.
[00:01:51] Speaker C: She needs to cut my hair.
[00:01:53] Speaker D: I do cut his hair, but he's last on the list.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: We're going to a wedding on Saturday. I was like, please, please sort my hair out.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: Get, get a bowl on.
[00:02:02] Speaker D: There we have here is. I like his hair long. I think he looks handsome when his hair's a long, dark and curly.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: I'm 30 now and I'm starting to recede. So, like, when it goes too long and the wind blows, it's just, it's like a toupee. Yeah.
Yeah, I am. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm 32.
92, yeah. Now I'm 31.
I have a toy boy. That's right. Cradle snatcher.
[00:02:34] Speaker D: Say about yourself.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: So I was born on a farm. I'd be like a third generation farmer, but my father died when I was twelve and it was like my dad's side of the family's farm.
And my mum and him had divorced, so we had to go live with my mum, had to sell up all our farm stuff and all the rest of it.
And I went off and done another job and then came back to farming.
A few. I came back to farming. I don't know. Was it eight years ago now? Seven years ago, yeah. Not sure. Came back to farming, brought a few sheep, just sort of dipped the toe. And now we've got quite a lot of sheep and we've just had to start everything from scratch, basically, as new entrants. Pretty much, yeah, yeah. With nothing really. And we just built up a farming from there. And here we are.
I'm just gonna shut that window because it's raining.
[00:03:31] Speaker D: Can you hear that? Can you hear that rain on our end?
No, it's absolutely bucketing down now.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Really.
Is it not raining up there?
[00:03:46] Speaker C: It's not raining about.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: More off. It's a special, special night.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Cambria might as well be called Wales, I think.
So, Chris, Chris, nicely mentioned there about new entrants and that's going to be our topic today because I'm a new entrant. Chris and Zoe, a new entrance.
Our.
I say our Chris is a new entrant, but I'd say the way you're operating business, you're not a typical farmer, like. No typical farmer is in Venice during the summer when it should be on the farm. So, yeah, I think new entrance wise, we all know that there's. Are there plenty of challenges faced as a new entrant? So what challenges did you two face, especially with Chris, your farm sort of being born on a farm and then you had to move away. And also, Zoe, coming from salon side to interfarm, with what challenges have you guys faced?
[00:04:55] Speaker C: The two challenges that you face are land, access to land and money.
They are the only two things holding anyone back from starting farming.
Facts.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: What about knowledge?
[00:05:10] Speaker C: Knowledge is out there, though. Knowledge is out there.
[00:05:12] Speaker D: You gotta be hungry for the knowledge. Yeah, I feel I'm quite a good example of that. Like, yeah, the things I didn't know, a lot of them I'm too embarrassed to. I'll say things in Chris, go. Never say that out loud again. Like, embarrassing. Not embarrassing for me because I don't know any different. But he's literally like, don't say that.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:34] Speaker D: And they.
[00:05:35] Speaker C: I think the knowledge is there. Like, if you go to anywhere, like where farmers are and go and talk to farmers, they'll talk to you. If you ask them advice, they'll offer it. Whether it's right or not is another thing. But you can. I remember we. When me and you went to Flav went to Cumbria. Flav. And we went to that show. What was that show called?
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:00] Speaker C: In the little village where they do.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: Wrestling, Chris, what's it called? Yeah, they all do wrestling in Cumbria.
[00:06:11] Speaker C: I can't anyway.
[00:06:16] Speaker D: Not rdyl.
[00:06:19] Speaker C: You're gonna.
[00:06:20] Speaker D: That's gonna bug me. Anyway, it's just happened.
[00:06:22] Speaker C: Anyway, off topic. Doesn't matter. Yeah.
Flav went straight up to a bloke and was like, right, what's going on here? And he just told you everything. But remember about the dogs, like, everything. Like, farmers don't get to talk to a lot of people, so they're out there doing it. So I think the knowledge. The knowledge is okay. And a lot of it, you have to learn yourself as well.
[00:06:47] Speaker D: You've just got to be. For me, I think you've just got to be fearless.
[00:06:52] Speaker C: So don't be afraid, actually.
[00:06:55] Speaker D: So, like every. A lot of what I learn, I learn of old boys at the market, whether it's dated practices or whatever.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:06] Speaker D: Like if you stand ringside and ask questions there. There's only been one. One time where someone hasn't given me an answer.
Like they're. They're quite.
They want to. I think that farmers, they do want to pass on the knowledge, but they just don't want to readily offer it. You just have to ask and badger them till they give it up.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So coming from a non farming background, Zoe, you've always felt welcomed into the community and especially, like, we've had.
We've had ladies on the podcast before talking about sort of some of the disadvantages they've seen about being a women in farming. Is that something that you have felt or is it something that.
[00:07:52] Speaker D: I felt it as an advantage personally, but I've chatted to a lot of girls, obviously, I've chatted to loads of girls online and they've had a lot of situations where, you know, they've been discriminated against or made to feel a certain way. I'm not discrediting, that's how they were made to feel. But personally, I've never. I've always felt it was an advantage for me because women do hold the power in the world.
Fact, you're girl power. Any of that. But I do genuinely feel like we do have the upper hand, definitely.
I see. I do see it as an. I would see it. My sex. It was an advantage for me.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: I don't know, because there'd be. There'd be a couple of, like, older, outdated people that are think that you couldn't do things because you're a woman, but in the same.
[00:08:57] Speaker D: Yeah, but if they said to me.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: You would make them feel more uncomfortable speaking to them than they would feel with you. Because they're sort of like, these are. Some of these old boys are quite intimidated by Zoe because she's just like.
[00:09:09] Speaker D: Some of them are like a young.
[00:09:11] Speaker C: Bird comes along to talk to and ask them questions and they don't know where to look. They're like.
[00:09:17] Speaker D: A couple of times I've had it where, like, market's probably the best example. I've had it where I've waved at someone and I've been like, oh, you're right. Hi. And Chris is like, how the hell do you know him? And I said, oh, he's so and so's husband. And he'll be like, I didn't even know he was married. And I'll know literally where he spent Christmas, absolutely everything. Because, you know, we've cooed for coffee together and I've got chatting to him and he's opened up. But the way that I tend to see it, and it's one of my favorite bits that I wrote in my book, is that they. If they were sat in my hairdressing chair, we would get on like a house on fire. So the fact that we're around a ring watching calf sell or whatever should really be irrelevant.
Because if we can find a common ground when he's literally looking at himself in the mirror getting his hair cut, why can't we find a common ground at the market or in the cafe? Whatever. That's how I see it. But I'm quite an outgoing person, so maybe I'm not the best example. Like, I will literally talk to everyone and chew their ear off like I'm doing now.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: And I think also that point you make there, Zoe, is that it? I think in agriculture, how the industry's always sort of given shit in that it's not accepting, it's quite sort of outdated, etcetera. I think it's a lot of it's to do with setting, because the same person that will say, get off my land or don't do this, whatever, townie, if you're in a pub and you bought them a pint, they'll be your best mate, because it's a completely different setting. So I think, yeah, that point you make there about being sat in a salon chair compared to being in a ring watching cow selling, that's. Yeah, that's a very good.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: One thing that always frustrates me is like, I've always. Obviously, my background's a little bit different coming from a farming family, but I've always felt I've picked up a lot of things from different farmers and good knowledge and good tips. But I often, then you see the sort of social media side of farmers sort of being so critical of each other and sort of keyboard warrior, sort of. Yeah. And getting into arguments when really, I think we're a lot stronger together. If we're all sort of singing from the same hymn sheet against the sort of anti farming NGO sort of brigade. And. Yeah, a lot of people do seem to use that as a bit of a face to be. To be negative, which always frustrates me. And obviously, you two are both very strong on social media. Have you, have you found that?
[00:11:57] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:11:58] Speaker D: Yeah, it's savage.
[00:11:59] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: I was gonna say, that's a nice little slide. Slide into it there, Chris. Nice, nice.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Obviously, like the.
I can't. I don't even know where to start. Like, some of the stuff, the things that people have spoken to us about and been.
I don't just how critical some people are about some stuff you put online just. Just kills me. Like, if. If I post a ten second video on Instagram, on an Instagram story, like, you don't get the chance to explain everything properly. You don't get to do all these things and people will just pull you apart. And just because they. I don't know, I just, you know.
[00:12:40] Speaker D: The bottom line of it all is people want the followers and they want the likes.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:12:50] Speaker D: Just that is like the bad apple. Like, that's not the right thing. What I mean is, it taints everything. It taints their view of you as a person. It taints they, their view of everything that, that need to be popular.
Sadly, ruin, ruins everything on social media. And it. I think it's got way, way worse. Like, I was having a conversation the other day, and the fact that farming is in the media, it's on mainstream tv. It's in.
Well, I saw Helen Rebanks was in the time in the Times newspaper. Like, these farmers and farmers fat farming families are in. Are everywhere. And that's so good for farming. But with that brings the rough side of everyone's now striving to be in magazines and being on selly sometimes.
[00:13:53] Speaker C: So it's quickly, sometimes I'll have a conversation with someone and they will tell me that someone I've never spoken to or never met or don't even know exists on this planet has bitched about me to them. And I'm just like, what on earth is going on with the world? Like, they, we, me and this person never had a conversation. They don't know who I am, but they're openly going to someone else, say.
[00:14:18] Speaker D: What they said about you, to like.
[00:14:20] Speaker C: Bitch about me and things like that. And I just think I'm just a human being. I just can't, I can't work it out at all. Like, they have no idea about any aspect, really, of my life. Only what we show online.
[00:14:33] Speaker D: That's the bottom line, though. It's what you choose to show is what you choose to show online.
[00:14:38] Speaker C: It blows my mind, honestly. It just, I can't.
People can work together because of it. It drives me mad.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: So as, as new, as new entrance then, because we're coming into the industry, not like without any. Oh, because grandad did this or dad did this or great granddad did this. We haven't got that. We're literally doing what we want to do or what we're talking amongst friends, what we've seen other people doing. Do you think then that social media has a place in farming going forward? Because. Yes, I hundred percent agree that the animosity, the thirst and the sort of desperation, hunger for desperation, the hunger for followings is definitely an issue. It's honest. It's going to be a pandemic, if it's not already.
And especially for young people who are impressionable. Um, and how I think the, the media, because like you say, nine times out of ten, the media go on a story that's going to sell, which, that's their business. Same way with us selling goat or selling pork or lamb. We're doing what? What's going to sell? If it's summer, you do kebabs, you do burger. If it's winter, you're going to do your casseroles, you'll be shin's, whatever. And they capitalize on the fact that someone's got x number of followers compare, someone's got y. Let's go with x because we're going to get more, more sort of more engagement there. But then behind that, they're not considering that some people that will be aiming for x because so and so got a sign contract because they have ex followers. Their mental side that creates for people from wanting likes, from wanting engagement, from, um, beaching about someone you've never met before. It's like, how, how can we make it just be more positive than negative going forward?
[00:16:44] Speaker D: It's too late, love.
[00:16:46] Speaker C: I don't know. I think there is quite a lot of positivity in it. Like, I do.
[00:16:49] Speaker D: I know, I agree with that. But you, you said for the younger generation, didn't you? It's too late for the younger generation.
[00:16:58] Speaker C: The thing is, what blows my mind is, like, people, like, I don't know, these sort of people, like, don't seem to have a life outside of Instagram. They seem to just wanna.
They don't. They get so. So infatuated and so fixed on their lives on Instagram and what's going on with, like, people like us that they've never met or whatever, that I just think, what have you got going on your own life that gives you time to just think about things like this so much. Like.
[00:17:27] Speaker D: It'S not just farmers, though. It's like, obviously I've got a lot. I still chat to a lot of my hair clients, and a lot of them have young daughters that I've done their hair since they were born, practically.
And their young daughters are now on TikTok with three different filters on doing the dances that they saw. These face full of fillers girls do in crop tops. And that's. That's TikTok's main thing now is that kind of push of these hauls and these makeup looks and these whatever. And these girls are obsessive, obsessive over it to the point of, you know, they're overlapping their over, lining their lips with lip liner so it looks like they've had fillers at, like, 14 years old.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: And here's me getting mocked for having big lips at school. Now people are copying it. Let's go. I'm not paying anything for these bad boys.
[00:18:29] Speaker C: I do think about the social media being positive, like, that group that you're involved as well. Flavor, like, we're gonna get to. Because of me being on social media, I'm gonna get a chance to speak to, like, the heads of supermarkets and things like that about farming and things like that. Like, and there's a lot of, like, issues that, like, we can really grind into. And because you've got a big audience.
[00:18:54] Speaker D: But they wouldn't know who you both were.
[00:18:56] Speaker C: No social media, would that.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, there is that.
[00:18:59] Speaker C: I think real good things that can come of it. Even if it's, like, just showing the masses, like, look at the advert for the fake meat. Like, it blew up. We got an advert band because they lied about fake me just because of. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, I.
Yeah.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: A lot of the stuff with the fake meat. I was reading something this week about, actually the market share and the demand for it has fallen. Like, a lot of these brands have really failed. But I think on the cup side of that, one of the things I think with agriculture.
A lot of the stuff on the regenerative farming side.
Yeah, there's definitely a place for it on a lot of farms. But sometimes some of the most outspoken guys in that community are very outspoken about the sort of the larger scale, more intensive farms. And we need those farms as well. Like, sometimes just because a farm is bigger and producing more animals doesn't mean there's a drop off in welfare. And sometimes the opposite. Sometimes.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: This is where it comes a bit sticky with farming, because there's a million different ways of doing the same thing.
You can't really talk about what you're doing or try and sell the benefits of what you're doing without it sounding like you're putting others down as well. So I think that sort of rubs people up the wrong way and things like that. And it's not always what you're trying to achieve, but it just. It sort of comes across in the pub.
[00:20:33] Speaker D: In the pub. If you had, say, a regenerative farmer and an intensive farmer in a pub, they'd have it out, wouldn't they? But on social media, you're saying your bit. You're saying your bit and your worlds aren't colliding, you just think that you're contradicting each other.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:20:49] Speaker C: I think that's a lot of it.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: And I think.
And I think there is a thing that people always have to be one or the other. Like, I don't know why humans want to try and be like magnets. You've got a north and a south pole. You can be the middle. You can be this one day. You can be that the other day. And I see this especially as a pig farmer. When I went to a farm that had outdoor people that I didn't even know had issues with indoor farming, were like, oh, my God, it's so good to see you working outside with the pigs. They're so much better out there. And I'm like, but imagine in the winter when the pigs have their bellies in mud. Tell me about that. When the water's frozen. Tell me about that. When piglets are being born and freezing to death. Tell me about that.
[00:21:34] Speaker D: They won't put it on social media, so it don't exist. Flav.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Oh, you're jumping the gun. That was my next bit. Pause.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Hold up, hold up.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: As Chris said there about the large scale and small scale, it's such a quick flip. It's like, oh, because it's big, it's shit, or because it's small, it's always good. And that's not the case. And I, I saw this in Covid. When people are like, all supermarkets are shut buy from us, we're small, we're better. But it doesn't, it doesn't work like that. Just because you're small doesn't make you better. And to move on to Zoe's point about not showing it, social media and farming, one thing I think as new entrants we can change is showing, and we are doing is showing everything. Because for the consumer, we need to be open full stop. Like, there's no two ways about it. And for us to differ from sort of other industries or to make ourselves stand out as high, we're the best we can be. It's about being open in what we do. And I think if we were to be open enough to the public, it would take some time. But it will get to a point when the public have buy in on it. Like, look at France. Like the French are behind their farmers. Whereas in this country, with everything else going on, not just farming, there's so much other shit going on that people just care about filling their stomach up. They don't care where, where food comes from. You got costs, you got rent, you got all sorts of other shit going on.
But on. Yeah, on the social media side, I think the openness, the openness of content definitely improved because not everyday cute lamb and cute goat, kid or piglet.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: No, that is true.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: And have you?
[00:23:32] Speaker D: Yeah, I do think that's true. And I do think it's important to show X, Y and Z, all of the above, you know, that. I'm not really frightened to show anything. However, what if you had a farmer that was too uncomfortable and fearful of the backlash to show something bad that happened?
[00:24:00] Speaker C: It's only backlash from other farmers.
[00:24:02] Speaker D: Yeah, but what if they didn't?
[00:24:03] Speaker C: It's not from the farm.
[00:24:04] Speaker D: No, it could be from animal activists. Because I've had quite a few comments over the years, messages from people saying, I wish I could be as brave as you at showing X, Y and Zenith. I get that a lot.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: And that's. That's where Chris's point of.
Yeah, that's where Chris's point of working together comes in. Because when you've already got fault lines like tectonic plates in the industry, where a regenerative will kick off on an indoor, a large scale will kick off at a small scale. When an activist comes in the whole z, they just crack it even more. But if we're solid as an industry, anyone can put something up, because if someone chops up, trying to put them down and whatever. All of us come in and we're like, oi, this is this, leave him alone. But. So until we sort our own house out, we can't worry too much about what's happening outside because we've got so much shit going on in the house.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: Oh, I agree.
No, it's just. Hold on deep in it.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: What do you mean?
[00:25:09] Speaker A: What do you mean? Is upset you.
[00:25:11] Speaker C: No, it hasn't.
[00:25:13] Speaker D: He sighed and I said, did that upset you? And he said, no, it's just deep, isn't it?
[00:25:20] Speaker C: I was just.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: Sorry.
[00:25:22] Speaker C: Go on.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: So back to the new entrance side. Do you think as an industry, we're sort of doing enough to facilitate new entrants coming into it? Do you feel like you've been helped enough? And, like, if not, what else could be there?
You've talked about some of the barriers with finance and whatnot. What else could the industry do to help more people like you guys come in and be successful?
[00:25:50] Speaker C: That's a tough one, because I don't feel like we've had a lot of help at all, if I'm honest. No, but I think what frustrates me is the subsidy situation.
I know that's changed a bit, but the single farm payment think. And people are probably going to cry hard at this, but the single farm payment kept a lot of bad farmers farming, not less, but perhaps just got a bit lazy with it because it was easy not to do things.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Businesses.
[00:26:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:26] Speaker D: If you went to a bank with their business model, they'd laugh you out the door. Yet the government are giving you x amount.
[00:26:36] Speaker C: Subsidies was just a lazy way of keeping. Not lazy because it's easy. If the money's coming in, then why would you bother working for it? But it kept, like, hungry young, younger. Well, necessarily younger, just hungry people with different, like, you know, like, we were hungry. We were hungry to go farming and do it. And it kept a lot of barriers in our way because it's just easy not to. You know, like when we were trying to get on these. Some of these arable farms, trying to, like, get them to put cover crops in, in the winter so we could graze it, they just weren't interested because they don't need the extra income and they can just sit on, you know, they don't need the grief of, like, having sheep on there and problems that that brings and all that sort of stuff. And it was just frustrating, like, so frustrating because you see a lot of land not being used.
[00:27:25] Speaker D: We drive past fields that were just.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: And you just like, oh, come on. Like. And you just know that it's okay. They're just having their money off of it. And I. It's just that was that the most frustrating thing, I think.
[00:27:37] Speaker D: And it's an interesting question saying.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: What.
[00:27:42] Speaker D: Do we feel could be done to, you know, change that and give new entrants a step up or help? And the only thing I can think of possibly that's not so big, like, bloody government policies would probably be just to hear them out. So, like, if, for example, if, you know, a young lad or young woman came and said, you know, that field out the front, blah, blah, blah, blah, just to hear them out, rather than already have a no in your head, like, landowners already having a no in their head before they even hear what you're going to say.
That's probably the only thing I think would be different because some of these large landowners, they wouldn't even. I sent so many emails, I didn't even get a reply before asking for grazing.
I mean, just entertain them a little bit because you never know. It could be a beautiful relationship down the line.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: But you look in other countries, guys, and you look at like, Australia and New Zealand, they use share farming very successfully because obviously it allows all the landowners, maybe with a, without a son or daughter that want to join the business, to still keep their asset and keep the farm that they love and then a younger person, the chance to sort of start their own business.
And do you think that would work over here or do you think it would be successful? Would it be something you would entertain?
[00:29:24] Speaker C: I'd entertain it, I think. Yeah. Yeah, it'd have to be.
I don't know, it have to be the right fit and it has to be the right person, but, yeah, it'd be, yeah, I'd 100% entertain it. Yeah. I mean, our dream of, like, trying to. We'd never be able to buy a farm. Like, we're nothing ever going to own a farm and we are well aware of that.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: Never stop dreaming, bro.
[00:29:50] Speaker C: What's that?
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Never stop dreaming, man.
[00:29:53] Speaker C: No, I know, but it is, you.
[00:29:54] Speaker D: Know, you've got to be realistic as.
[00:29:56] Speaker C: Well for us to have a, like, you know, the sort of farm that we'd need all in one place. It's millions and millions, you know, and we're not going to earn that farming. It's literally a lottery win. It's about, you know, as good as.
[00:30:08] Speaker D: It'S going to get or a long lost wealthy relative.
[00:30:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: If you listen, onlyfans yeah.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Sugar daddy, onlyfans or a sugar daddy.
[00:30:21] Speaker D: It's got to the point now where I watch these programs of these people making like, 30,000 pounds selling pictures of their feet, and I just think, why am I slogging my bollocks off, pushing electric fencing pictures of my feet?
[00:30:39] Speaker C: She could be painting her toenail as a video.
[00:30:40] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:30:41] Speaker C: You know what I'm saying?
[00:30:43] Speaker D: What am I doing?
[00:30:44] Speaker C: But, yeah, so, yeah, a share farm would definitely, like 100%.
I'd be up for having a conversation about it.
[00:30:53] Speaker D: Yeah, we did have that.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: There is a scheme that goes on in Wales that I. Before getting the council farm, I did look into that, where you get a farmer that has the land and they're old, they've got no family, and then they. I think you go with them for like, x number of years and then whether you buy it or they leave a few, I don't know how that works out, but that definitely happens in Wales and I think that would be quite good to happen in this country. But then you've got the issue of if it's family land, like. And there's something about the English, I.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: Think, like, it's just like, round here, though now, like, so we're tenant farmers in Cumberland. We're on a three generation tenancy. But now that tenancies are coming up, five years, two, five years, you see these farms that are like, surely big landowners and land agents need to just maybe take a more long term approach and look at it. The fact that if someone's got a farm for two years, they're not going to invest in that farm, they're not going to do the right drainage, because people are worried about where they're going to be. Like, yeah, we surely need to be going back to those sort of longer term, longer term deals, which. It will be a benefit to everybody.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: That's the next thing. That's the next thing that I wanted to bring up. The, um. The farm tenancies are way too short. Way too short.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Of the length of tenancy does that. If it's quite. If it's a long tenancy and there are more people that want to farm than land, then how'd you work that? Because, like, for us here, I know we've got seven years, maybe Max ten, but I know hopefully we can get somewhere else to go to after, to give someone else a chance to have a go, like I did. So, like a double edged sword, isn't it? Because, yeah, if you trying to start.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: Like, yeah, well, I was gonna say the way we've started and we've rented land off everyone all over the place and moved things about and literally started from scratch. We, that's why we really wanted the farm tenancy we've just gone for, because we are ready for that next step. And, yeah, I want, like, we, we were really in a good place to give up. Like, we, we leased like a couple hundred acres the next week, ten different locations. The next two people could have come up in our space. Do you know, I mean, and it give us. And we. We're ready for that next step now. And that's like, the frustrating bit about it all is we've done all that sort of leg hard work that I've kind of feel like you need to do and got ourselves in this position now where we're ready to just jump on it and just jumping back to link the social media side of things. What we were saying is the most frustrating thing I see on there is people, like, going, oh, well, you've only got 400 cheap. How's that a viable business? And you're like, that pisses me off. Everyone's got to start somewhere.
[00:33:58] Speaker D: And not even that, you don't know what our business is.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: We've got, we had 250 lambs last year that we wintered, and everyone's like, ah, 250 lambs, you can't make. You can't make a business doing that. And I'm like, but if you don't.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: This is f stupid, man.
[00:34:12] Speaker C: If, you know, if, all right, we need a thousand lambs over winter to make it pay. That's great, but you've got to start somewhere, you know? And also, I wouldn't want to just go in with a thousand lambs. All that debt and all that, and then learn all the mistakes I've learned. Now you've got to let people have a chance to do things, you know? And that's one of the frustrating things I find with being a new entrant coming through and especially being on social media, just people like, what annoys me.
[00:34:44] Speaker D: The most is people are so hung up on how many sheep you've got, they're almost like, obsessive. It's the first thing I'm asked whenever I do podcasts, whenever I do interviews, whenever I do anything. Okay, if you want to say a bit about how many sheep do you run, how many cattle do you run? And they don't even say run. They'll say, how many animals have you got? And I always feel like I'm under to them. It's just a normal question. But for me, I always think, is that a loaded question? Is that not enough? Do you know what I mean? Actually, it's no one else's business. How many sheep we've got, people, literally, that's probably the most. Apart from what fake tan do you use? That's probably the most asked question I'll get in my DM's is how many sheep you've got.
[00:35:32] Speaker C: Really?
[00:35:37] Speaker A: With that, with that point now about size and whatever, I think it's so stupid because no matter what size the business is, as long as the bottom line of their cash flow is green, who gives a shit? Because I get asked to support the first questions I've been asked after getting a tenancy is, oh, is that gonna pay for you and Nikki? I'm like, well, it will at some point, but not yet because we've still got other jobs. And then you get comments like, oh, you're going all the way to chippingham with two pigs. I'm like, my friend, oh, yeah, these pigs are getting sold in a podcast. A hog roast. One of those pigs will be the equivalent of selling five to the open market. So what are you telling me? So it's like Zoe says, if you don't know someone's journey, just sit down, shut up and watch. Because all this nonsense are people trying.
[00:36:27] Speaker C: To.
[00:36:34] Speaker D: Go and they're finding their own way. And if you think they're doing something wrong, this is how I feel. So one of my biggest issues from social media is someone. There will be certain people, or when you read back through the DM, like the thread of DM's, they're picking holes, picking holes, picking holes, picking holes.
[00:36:55] Speaker C: Passive aggressive.
[00:36:55] Speaker D: Not one single message will say, oh, wow, that calf looks really well. Oh, bloody hell, that's a turnaround or whatever. All it will be is, oh, are you sure you don't want to vaccinate against foot rock?
If I was you, I would have treated that with, say, and so.
[00:37:12] Speaker C: Bloody hell, what a turnaround.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: I'm going to dm you saying that tomorrow when I see lame sheep.
[00:37:22] Speaker D: Is there not anything better than someone messaging you saying your animals look well?
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's true. Especially as a farmer getting told that all the animals look well. It's honestly, there's no, there's no better compliment, that's all.
[00:37:38] Speaker C: I mean, we encourage people loads, don't we, on, on social media with little amounts of sheep and stuff. We're like, go on, son, have a go.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Quick. Why wouldn't you have quick, um, fact, quick diversion off the main bit as, as well. Back on track. What I've heard a little bit as new entrance. What do you reckon of this supply chain? So for, for, for you to starting, like Chris says, from scratch, having to get the animals thinking, okay, who are we going to sell to? Where we're going to sell, how we're going to sell. How did you go around that supply chain setup?
[00:38:20] Speaker C: How do you mean? Sorry, in what sense?
What did we do at first?
[00:38:26] Speaker A: No. Did you think to go, okay, we're going to sell on the open market or did you think for us to make it work, we're going to excel direct? Or did you try and go open market and it didn't work, vice versa? How did you navigate around?
[00:38:40] Speaker C: I don't really know. I think there was a lot. There was quite a lot going on. And at the start of it, we just, we sold open market, but then we sold straight away the first year we did it, we straight away sold lamb boxes just the second year, just because it was cool as well, though, that we were, like, producing.
[00:38:57] Speaker D: We were proud.
[00:38:58] Speaker C: Yeah, we were like producing these lambs and we was just like, this is cool. And like, the more you speak to people about it, the more people were just like wanting to buy them.
So we done that. But then, no, we still, we still sell a lot of lambs on the open market as well, especially. It's good at the moment. It's good. It's a lot better than it was a few years.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: You're living the dream, I think, to be fair. Is this, like, Chris, you're quite good with stats. Is this the first a rare time where pigs are good, sheep are good, cows are good. What? How are poultry doing? Chris? Is poultry good?
[00:39:36] Speaker B: So eggs are doing really well at the moment, but after a disastrous broiler two years, so they need it to even like, try and start recouping the losses of the last few years because he's literally just been booed. Bust.
Chicken is doing okay. Feed prices come back a bit, but they're not making, they're not really making massive returns. It's doing okay, I think would be the thing. Milk. Milk prices obviously come back quite a bit. So that's quite worrying for some of those guys.
But, yeah, on the whole, beef and lamb.
Beef and lamb prices are good. And I think what is good about markets? Like, I sell quite a bit of my stuff direct as well, like both of you, but it is quite good to have that fall back crutch of a known market for you. So it helps you sleep at night to know that the animals you are producing, there is going to be a market for them, and selling direct isn't for everyone. I always say that to people thinking of starting up goats. I'm like, well, are you good? Are you quite happy to pick up the phone call and be told, nah, I don't like goat? What you. What you're saying that for? If you sell it direct, you've got to be used to people going, nope, nope. And it's not for everyone. So selling direct isn't for everyone. But if you can use social media and you've got personality, you think you can and you got the confidence. It's. It's a really good. It's a really good avenue.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: Yeah, go on, Zoe.
[00:41:16] Speaker D: I was just going to say that that was the reason that we started selling direct, was because we wanted to put our own price on our produce.
[00:41:32] Speaker C: Yeah, this was on. This was on the back of Brexit and being told that, like, meat, crack meat market was going to crash. We were trying to borrow money to buy stock and we were like, is the stock going to be worthless in six months? And then they kept pushing the Brexit thing back and back and back.
And then. Yeah, and then the COVID hit, didn't it? And everyone started buying direct. And we wish he'd started it sooner. And then. Yeah, and then we just started selling more direct then.
[00:41:59] Speaker D: Yeah, we did a good two years of selling a lot direct, like, without tooting our own trumpet. It was a successful business.
[00:42:07] Speaker C: Yeah, it was good. And then a lot of work.
[00:42:10] Speaker D: A lot of work. And then we kind of got to the point, I think, well, I certainly got to the point where the price started getting good at the market and we sold a few bits through the livestock market and we suddenly looked at each other and said, we haven't put a price on our time. And if we put a price on our time, the business actually isn't probably.
[00:42:38] Speaker C: The price is good at the minute. Like, the margins for me aren't there to try and sell directly what we're getting for our lamb's fat price. Just in Ashford, dropping a trailer off and having a check the next week. It isn't worth our work doing all the extra work at the moment.
[00:42:55] Speaker D: At the moment, yeah.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Talking about charging your time again back to new entrants. It's a thing. And we've got a friend, good old Johan, that started a conversation on Twitter a few weeks back about how much is good to pay yourself as a farmer, to like to sort of be able to enjoy life without impacting too much on the business or impacting too much on yourself. And I think the figure that was there, if I remember correctly, I think it said something like two pound 50 an hour. And I'm like, you might as well go work for someone else. You go, Miles will go do minimum weight for someone.
[00:43:39] Speaker D: Are you gonna say about when we did the tenancy?
[00:43:42] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Yes. When we done the tenancy, we just fight for a tenancy. And it was a big tenancy.
We done all our cash flows. It was mad. And we didn't price in.
[00:43:53] Speaker D: No, no, no.
So I spent days doing these cash flow. Thanks for the help, Flav. Cash flow, forecasts, budgets, all of that. And we said, right, we said to Chris's stepdad, please, will you just look over this and just tell us if we've, you know, made a mistake or we've missed something, because we were so tunnel vision with wanting this farm and.
[00:44:14] Speaker C: The business and everything.
[00:44:16] Speaker D: We just, like, our brains were fried. And he was like, okay, fine. Nobody went through it. And he went, slight problem, guys. You haven't put in any wages whatsoever for the two of you? And we were like, we haven't. Salary we don't have, don't pay ourselves. It's just a business. That's just how businesses go. And he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And he literally, like, got a pen and put figures in that. He was like, you have to do this.
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:41] Speaker D: We didn't even cross.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Because I find, like, at the moment, especially starting up, luckily, Nick is still working full time. I've still got a few other jobs I'm doing, but whenever I'm pricing up, let's say, like, after the hog roast, I'm thinking, yes, this is x amount per head. And people are, oh, that's a lot of money. But I'm like, I've got to man this thing for 6 hours, 7 hours to cook, then I've got to get to your venue, then I've got to serve you for 2 hours, then I've got a pack up, then I'm going to go back, then I'm going to pressure wash Sebastian for an hour and a half. You think all that time it needs to be factored in? And I think without crippling the business at the moment, I can't say to myself, oh, I'm going to pay myself the same wage I'm asking to be paid when I'm working somewhere else, because the business just being minus, but I'm hoping to get to a point where me and Nikki can say we can take a cut out and the business is fine. And I don't think a lot of farmers do that and I don't think that's a good thing personally because, yes, you've got the lifestyle and all this, but it's a, it's, it doesn't make financial sense to say you're not going to pay yourself. It's just a lifestyle. Like, you can't ring void of fun and say, oh, my, my monthly contract this time, um, I'll pay you in lifestyle. Is that okay? They'll be like, are you mad? Money has to be involved in literally.
[00:46:08] Speaker C: Shelves for like 13 pounds.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Me. I know. And you haven't got, you sleep at night. I haven't got to worry about ginger.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: Ninjas on the railway line up on.
[00:46:17] Speaker D: A Sunday.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: Getting sheep out of someone's garden. Did you see that, Chris?
[00:46:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:46:25] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I saw this story.
My stomach was, my stomach turned.
[00:46:32] Speaker D: Can I.
[00:46:36] Speaker C: Sorry. I was gonna say, three Saturdays on the trot, sheep have been out on roads for us.
[00:46:42] Speaker D: It was nearly this weekend as well. If we hadn't fixed the fence, they'd have been out this weekend. I just wanted to quickly say there you saying about, you know, paying yourself a wage and things like that. Obviously a lot of jobs you pay into a pension, don't you?
And things like that with farmers. I do feel like. So when I was a hairdresser, I paid into a pension scheme and I always did. Since I've been farming, I put a penny away for when I'm old and grey. I haven't put anything away and I'm only, you know, I'm only 30. Do you know what I mean? I'm not worried about retiring yet, but it is something that hasn't really crossed. I mean, have you ever even thought about it, Chris?
[00:47:31] Speaker C: What about retirement, about pension? I'm just going to cash all the sheep in, move to Barbados one day.
[00:47:38] Speaker B: I think it'd be scary if you looked at the lack of farmers that had pensions. I think it really would be scary. And like, what if you look at RBI, the amount of people they have to say a tenant farmer retires at 75 and they have to help with food and all sorts because literally they've worked hard and all their lives and probably really struggled to make a living and when they've retired, that's it, they haven't got any income and no savings.
And I suppose that's something as the industry, the different bodies, really need to make sure that farmers are thinking about the future and setting themselves up for future years.
Just back on to your tenancy. I'm just interested. Has it. Obviously the disappointment has hurt and you can see that because it was a dream. Has it made you hungrier to go again? Or do you think you'd wait a while or you chomping at the bit to for the next big opportunity? Or has it knocked you.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: It knocked me really hard. Really hard. Mainly because it went to a big farming contractor. And most of the reasons we don't go for farm tendencies is because we're like, oh, matey down the road, got all this land and, like, has big farms is gonna get it. So what's the point?
This one, we really felt like they were looking for something different, and we felt like we really had a shock. And then I suddenly was like, no, there's this glass ceiling that we're never gonna, you know, penetrate, and we're just gonna be doing this forever, like, you know, scratch scraping by, getting bits of land, of people, hand me downs off other farmers. We're never gonna, like, actually get to this point now where we can take a big farm on security. We even had backing from a bank and everything. We had the whole thing worked out for us and then we still didn't get it. And I was just like, no, we're just never actually gonna be able to get one of these, like, proper farms. Like, it was a proper farm.
So, yeah, it was just frustrating.
I am not chomping at the bit, but we're always looking for an opportunity.
Always.
[00:49:58] Speaker D: But we always have been.
[00:50:00] Speaker C: Yeah, we always have been, to be fair. Yeah.
No, I don't know. It hasn't really knocked us back. I don't think I feel ready yet to go through all of that. We just went through, like, if one come up tomorrow and I had to do all the cash flows and I.
[00:50:13] Speaker D: Would.
[00:50:19] Speaker C: Feel, like, genuinely tired from it. Like, it was a really stressful, like, month. It was horrible.
But no, we're like, you've got to.
[00:50:29] Speaker B: Learn a lot from it.
[00:50:30] Speaker C: Oh, we've learned so much.
[00:50:32] Speaker D: Like, you would not believe. Like, even. It sounds so silly, but, like, even as a couple, we've learned quite a lot of, like, what we want in our futures as a couple and things like that, which. And had a lot of conversations.
And actually, like, for me, I feel like I saw a lot of strengths in Chris that I maybe haven't seen in other situations, which was quite nice, but that was quite nice.
Every single day, 365 days a year, I work with him and then obviously come home with him. Like, that's quite a lot for any couple. So to see, learn something about someone that you didn't know before, that you've been together for nine years, was quite nice to see that.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: Chris is like an onion, isn't he?
[00:51:22] Speaker C: Same.
[00:51:27] Speaker B: Dream. Then what is the like, what is the dream?
[00:51:30] Speaker C: What like, um, we just want a farm. Um, the dream is just basically a ring fence farm that we want all.
[00:51:38] Speaker D: Our animals in one.
[00:51:39] Speaker C: We want all our animals in one farm. One farm and just a house, even a big house would be happy with a caravan. Genuinely. Just like a mobile home.
[00:51:47] Speaker D: I'd love to live in a mobile home that's like, rather than a house.
[00:51:51] Speaker C: And a farm big enough just to support us, just so we can have, like, a fairly mediocre, boring life, to.
[00:51:57] Speaker D: Be honest with you, and I want to grow.
[00:51:59] Speaker C: We don't have to train the sheep 10 miles down the road, and we don't have to do this, that, and the other. We just want. We want that pretty much like a fairly simple life.
Yeah, that's it.
[00:52:11] Speaker D: And I really, as well, would like quite a lot of dogs.
[00:52:17] Speaker C: Yeah, Zoe liked to. A lot of dogs. Probably a second house, just.
[00:52:21] Speaker A: Would you have a kennels business? Would you have a. Like, a kennels business?
[00:52:26] Speaker B: Doggie dog.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: That's good money.
[00:52:28] Speaker D: Doggie daycare. To be fair, one of the reasons that we had for this tenancy, one of the things we said, because they wanted it to be like, welcome the community. One of the things we said is we could turn one of the fields into, like, a fenced dog thing where you pain. We couldn't let her off lead with other dogs. And I thought, if Indy wasn't a farm dog, where would we walk? Like, where could we take her off lead and feel comfortable? And then we're like, oh, my God, we'll do that at the farm.
[00:53:05] Speaker A: There's so many of them around me, and so many farmers have a corner, their farm around here. I've probably seen three or four in about ten mile radius where people take that. And I think it's.
If one person is in there, no one else can go in. Yeah, lock the gate, let your dog out. That, see, that's definitely a business. A business idea there.
[00:53:28] Speaker B: I think that's exciting, talking us around here. Like, there is so many things you can do if you think outside the box. Obviously, you've had that time. Time to really sit down and evaluate what you could do on this farm. And that's a message for. Yeah, for anyone listening, really, there is loads of things, different things you can do. You don't have to do what your dad did or what the farmer previous did. Markets change, people change. There's so many things that as farmers, we can be doing.
It doesn't have to always be stereotypical beef and sheep and cows. There is loads of different things we can do.
[00:54:06] Speaker C: I've got two things to say about that. One is, we went back and forth on our business tendency, back and forth. Like, can we really make this work? And we were just like, if we've got the land and it's there, we will make it happen. Like, we will find a way to bring money in. There will be something we can do to make it work. And the other thing you were saying about not having to do what your father does and stuff like that, that's actually quite a big strength for us. Being new entrants is we have full flexibility to do whatever we like. If I want to go out and buy 100 Shetland ewes that do whatever, I can do that because I haven't got my father breathing in my ear telling me that I can't. And I think that's a real strength as a new entrance that you have.
I know there's a lot of people that take their parents farms on and things like that, and their parents are willing to let kids do things, but there's a lot of people that can't. And there's a lot. I see that a lot of. A lot of farmers like, well, they say it frustratingly, trying to take over the business and want to do things differently and they just can't. So I do think that's a real, like, plus for.
[00:55:18] Speaker D: Yeah, as much. As much as new entrants are scrutinized for what they do in terms of. I don't know, in some of these small. I have a lot of conversation, people, they say, you know, in our God, I could never do what, for example, Chris, when we started the little farm fridge, our butchery business, a few people were like, God, I'd never be brave enough to do that in my village. And I couldn't really understand it. But what it is is they're a farming family that have been in that village for generations. Generations. And kind of breaking the mold would be like the talk of the town. Whereas, you know, as new entrants, as much as people like God, they're crazy doing that. If you succeed, they'll be like, God, I wish I'd done that. And I think that's a really lovely like, there'll be pe. I was. I was thinking the other day, flav, you doing your hog roast?
[00:56:14] Speaker C: Yeah. There'll be pig farmers out there.
Not the bottle. They just wouldn't. Yeah, I suppose they just never have the bottle. The courage to go out and buy a hot roast and try it. That's the thing.
[00:56:27] Speaker A: Five months in. Five months in, and I'm already hearing that, like, oh, my God. Even, like, the market one. Personally, I wouldn't have done that. I should. I was like, fuck this. I'm not doing it. And how successful it went, talking to people, oh, my God, that's so good. I might give it a try. Or the whole thing is, does that actually make any money? I'm like, well, these are the figures. And that's another thing which I find easier with new entrants rather than sort of people that have been in doing it for long, is the knowledge sharing. Like, even you three here, I've learned so much from you three, and I know I can pick up the phone to either of you, say, look, I've got this. What do I do? We it financial, be it practical stuff. I can ask a question, and I've got so many other people younger than me that ask me questions, and I tell them.
Or like, before we went for the tenancy, I remember Chris saying to me that going self employed, mate, it's going to be.
It will need getting used to because you won't be having money coming in every month because you got to go look for it. And every time I'm sat here thinking, shit, I've got two grand bill for pig feed to pay next week. Yeah, where am I going to get that from? I need to get a hog roast in quick. Every time that sentence Chris said to me that you're going to miss that monthly money, it always rings in my head. And having people around you that can give you that nice advice and big you up when you're doing well, but also give you the reality of, mate, you're going to be slogging like hell. Just remember that. And you make that choice whether you want to go into it or nothing. Think in some part, in some parts of farming, it's almost lacking a bit because people are probably scared that if they over share, you're gonna. You're gonna compete with them. And it's like there's 60 odd million.
[00:58:21] Speaker D: People in this country nailed it.
[00:58:23] Speaker A: We don't even produce enough food to be sufficient. So if I do goat, Chris does goat, you lot do goats. We're not gonna literally, the african and asian community would eat all our goats and we still wouldn't have enough.
[00:58:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:37] Speaker A: So the whole country could do go. We still wouldn't have enough.
[00:58:41] Speaker D: No. Agree.
[00:58:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: So.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: Talking to families, thinking. I remember the first time I told my grandma, who was the first generation on Alpha, that I was gonna be selling go, I gave her a goat chop, and she genuinely thought I'd lost a plot.
What.
[00:59:05] Speaker D: Did she like?
[00:59:09] Speaker B: She did eat one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And she said. She said it was okay, so I'd take that as a compliment.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: What does she think now?
[00:59:19] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I don't think she thinks it's particularly good idea, but I don't really care, because I do. So that's the way it is.
[00:59:28] Speaker A: And if it pays the bills.
[00:59:30] Speaker B: If it pays the bills.
[00:59:30] Speaker A: It is what it is. Yeah.
[00:59:33] Speaker D: Chris, can I ask you a question?
[00:59:35] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:59:37] Speaker D: Can I what? If you can go back to the start of you building your empire and do anything differently, would you or would you do everything exactly the same now.
[00:59:50] Speaker B: Like, I think a bit like you. Like, I've had a lot of knockbacks and lots of different things. I think, like, what. What I've just learned from you guys doing your tenants, I actually think it's probably a really good thing in for the future, because you've had something that you really want, you've not got it, and it gives you that drive. So sometimes, like, if people fail or people go bankrupt or things, like, if you talk to someone and they've gone bankrupt, oh, my God, what a failing. Sometimes things just don't work. It might. It might be something that you've done to your best that you could do, but a market changes. So I'm quite happy with all the mistakes and decisions I've made, because I think, yeah, I might not be.
I might not be where I am today, and I enjoy what I do. And, yes, I wouldn't change particularly too much. And I think knockbacks make you stronger. And I think from listening to you guys, I'm fully behind you. And I think, yeah, I can't wait to the day that you get your dream farm and absolutely smash it.
[01:00:58] Speaker C: Appreciate that. That's kind of.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: Would you do change anything?
[01:01:03] Speaker D: My question time's done now, Flav. You can carry on.
[01:01:07] Speaker A: I said, would you two change anything?
[01:01:12] Speaker C: I don't know. There'd be a few mistakes that we made or a few things we'd done, but that were, again, we're just out of our control, really. So would I like to change the past? Definitely. But realistically, I think we wouldn't really have got here any. Any other way.
[01:01:29] Speaker D: You know, it was the way it had to happen.
[01:01:32] Speaker C: Yeah, that's how I've had knockbacks. But to be fair, they will build resilience in you as well. Like, you're saying, like, yeah, I do. I do think this is the same. It's the same as the social media. The only people you really get crap from are the people that have been given everything and have had an easy time of it. All the people that have come up hard way or struggled in life are never the horrible people. So I think. Yeah, no, I don't think we could change much.
[01:02:00] Speaker D: I would have wormed for homunculus, though.
[01:02:05] Speaker B: Don't mention that word to me. Jesus Christ.
[01:02:08] Speaker C: Yeah, we had a whole year last year.
[01:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
Anyways, I think we've taken up quite a bit of your time tonight. Just a big thank you, really, on behalf of me and Flav and Neil, wherever he's off, drinking. Drinking beer and enjoying himself, big thank you for joining us.
I've sort of followed your journey from a fine social media, and I think as many have. And, yeah, it's great to see your passion and your enthusiasm and thanks for sharing just a little bit of your story tonight with us and everyone that's listening.
[01:02:47] Speaker C: No problem at all.
[01:02:48] Speaker D: Thanks for having us.
[01:02:50] Speaker A: And we're looking forward to the second book. Zoe and anyone with land out there, you got a couple here that need some at least 500 acres, please, on a house.
[01:02:59] Speaker C: Thank you. 500 acres.
[01:03:01] Speaker A: Thank you, listeners.
[01:03:05] Speaker D: Any sugar daddies?
[01:03:06] Speaker C: Hit me up for me.
