The Boys are back in town!!!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to free Prong podcast. We're back. We can only apologize for our very, very long sabbatical. It's not because we don't care. It's just because we've been really, really busy doing lots of different things. Chris is, as somebody, as Flav points out the other day, Mr. Worldwide Pitbull, because he is literally jessing everywhere. [00:00:29] Speaker B: Neil, sorry to interrupt, but I also think we need to address the fact that just obviously what Flav was just telling us off air about the fact that he's been very conscious of coming on webcam because he's actually losing his hair. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that is true. [00:00:44] Speaker B: The receding hairline is. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Probably won't include stuff because he's gone a bit shy. He'll be pixelated out. Yes. [00:00:57] Speaker B: I would just say to you all you guys out there, that losing your hair. Look, look, Flav has taken the big step today to here on webcam. So you can, you can all do it, guys. Yeah, take a leap out. [00:01:12] Speaker A: He's. He's an inspiration to many, many men out there losing their hair. Obviously the reason he's losing his hair is because he's just spending his life chasing ginger ninjas around the countryside. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:01:25] Speaker A: You've got Chris going around the world and Flav's just going around the paddock and chasing pigs. And I've just been chopping some bits off some cows feet. Really? That's it. [00:01:37] Speaker C: My forehead. Kenyans have big foreheads. My mom has a big forehead. All my family have big foreheads. This hairline is like this till I die. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Trust me, we can sell advertising space on it's here. And look, it's still there. And it's like. [00:02:00] Speaker C: My friends would be. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Very at home, would be very surprised that we've mentioned both the size of your heads before mine is mentioned because I'm also. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Yeah, but you're. You've just got a massive head and a small body. [00:02:19] Speaker C: Where have you been traveling to, Chris? [00:02:23] Speaker B: So I'm in Italy today. So, yeah, my poultry business that I work in is based in Italy. So I'm enjoying the lovely food in Italy and wine in Italy this week. So, yeah, can't complain too much. [00:02:39] Speaker A: Ideal. [00:02:41] Speaker C: Well, from the picture you sent us of your pint, they clearly can't pour a pint. Now. [00:02:46] Speaker B: I'll tell you what, it was a big head, but it was like you. It was. [00:02:51] Speaker C: Yeah, it was glass houses. [00:02:55] Speaker A: Let's not start talking about head because that would just go down a different way altogether. Yeah, but, but no, there's obviously a Huge amount that's happened in our absence. I think we might have even had a change of government since the last time we were here. I'm not quite sure since the last time we did one. But, but, but I think if we didn't do one then around about that time I think we might have done one. But yeah, there's been lots of changes and a lot of stuff that's happened in and around farming, I think not just from the government but from a lot of outside pressures as well. So I think this evening we're just gonna have a bit of a catch up and actually just try and talk about some of the positive stuff because it's really easy to be negative but let's just try and actually be positive for half an hour or so. [00:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think it's just, I think the big, the big thing to sum up the last few months, last six months or so, really just uncertainty. I think everybody, just everyone you speak to in farming is just maybe worried about the future. So yeah, I think anything we can talk about and look at. Because look, we're all here, all invested in agriculture, we all still feel is a, a bright future in agriculture. So yeah, it's, it, it's talking about, yeah, some of the positives really. [00:04:19] Speaker A: No, definitely, definitely, definitely. So I mean it's just, yeah, so easy to get lost in the, in the negative. But if you actually do look at the positive, I mean livestock farming is in a really, really good place. You know, we've got record prices of beef, we've got, you know, really high lamb price. We were talking earlier about eggs and then you know, the egg price and stuff like that. Poultry is good. I know the wheat price and arable price is a little bit, a little bit pants. But on the whole farming financially actually isn't, you know, particularly in a bad place. I know the inputs are massive and cost of machinery is massive and all the rest of it, but it isn't, it is sort of moving in the right direction but no one seems to have a lot of positivity because no one knows what's around the corner. [00:05:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think it's, it's got a good, good topic to talk about at the moment actually, because I was thinking, thinking this before coming on, I was in the woods making some sausages and like the last month or two I've avoided following any, any farming media online. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:29] Speaker C: Because I just feel that, and I know people are doing a job. People like the hits you get, the engagement you get for these things. But I find across board and not naming any, any, any names, but I find that it's, it's so similar now to the, the general news where a headline is almost bored, sometimes borderline clickbait. Yeah, try and arouse. Arouse. No, that's not the word. To try and get a reaction from people. And you look at the comments and it's just like, not this again. And it's constantly so much infighting in some of the comments sometimes. And you just think, actually, look, if the industry is to go down, all the people winding each other up in here that are farmers, you're all going to suffer. So we either work together and support each other or, or we just, everyone just stays individual and does their thing. And I feel that since avoiding reading some of these stories and engaging in some of these posts, I'm actually not necessarily in a bubble because if I want to know the price of wheat, I know where to get it. If I want to know the price of pigs at a market before taking them, I know where to get it so I can go to where the information is and leave without having to constantly be in a hamster wheel. And yeah, I think, yeah, for me, for my, for my headspace and my mental health, it's been true, because you're not constantly seeing all these stories unless they creep into, like the Telegraph, like the one recently about Cranswick and a pig farm that was. I'd like an undercover cover sort of person filming people thumping pigs on floors and a few other sort of things that go against the high animal welfare we talk about in the uk. And I think I remember when I used to be involved in the pig industry, like the Young National Pig association and the mpa, I remember whenever we used to have these conversations about activism and people breaking into farms, because there's always. Every year you'd get an email across to pig farmers saying, look, do this. I don't know whether it's the same for chicken farms or cattle pigs every year, a few times a year, you get all the activists sort of rife at the moment. Make sure you lock your dead bins. Make you. And I'm like, hang on. So we say, as an industry, we pride ourselves in being highest welfare in the world. We always keep using that line, which some people might say is questionable. We always say that we're transparent to our consumers and yet we panic if we're having people come to the farm. And I've seen this firsthand in that comparing to when I used to work on other farms, compared now we've got our own farm where we're so close to town. I've driven past the pig, sometimes see people stood by the gate watching the pigs and I stop and go talk to them. And nine times out of ten is curiosity. And we have. When, when people come to the farm on a Saturday to buy stuff from the butchery, they say, oh, can we look at the animals? I'm like, yeah, go on then. Like, there's one limping there that's getting jabbed or whatever. There's one that's looking a bit dodgy. Probably it's going to die. And that kind of openness, you won't need to panic about activists because if someone, if farms were that transparent, as we say we are, why would you need to break in to go see what's there? Like, you only break in somewhere if you're suspecting there's something behind and that's hidden. [00:09:15] Speaker A: You know, that's the case. I mean, you know, there's always been, there's been high profile dairy things and sometimes when you look actually, you know, somebody's worked on the farm that's been sacked and fell out and he's got a bit of information out and stuff like that, you know, some of those higher profile things, you know, I go to different farm every day, I handle cattle, which is the most stressful thing you can possibly do. And it's sort of like, you know, you always do look up and around to sort of think sometimes. See, is there a red dot in that rafter? Is there a camera up there? If somebody shoves something in there, especially at the time when some stuff has come out. But I think that there's no excuse for that type of stuff to happen on farm. It doesn't need to happen. You know, that, that's, you know, whatever it is, it don't need to happen. You know, it, it really doesn't. And whether that comes down to employing the right people, staff training, right facilities handling whatever you're doing, that sort of stuff doesn't, doesn't really need to happen because it just has a, you know, a massive negative impact because it comes back to them. What you said, Flav, is that it just becomes clickbait. That's all that becomes, is somebody who will take that, put it on the Internet and it. People click on and follow it. And that's, you know, that's what the farming press is really, really good at doing at the moment, is creating a lot of clickbait because all they're trying to do is Drive more, you know, more stuff through there, whether it be their social media or through Google or whatever it can be. [00:10:39] Speaker B: But yeah, but I think you, you will find though, for example, I was at a conference a couple of months ago and there was a very well respected Canadian egg business that was opening up on the struggles they face with activists. And a lot of the negativity that they received was around the fact that they hadn't done a, a conventional cage ban, what some people would call a battery cage. So a lot of the emails to them were all around the battery cage ban and they wanted them to make a pledge. And actually these, these guys are, it's a, it's a fantastic family business. I've seen their farms, the highest animal welfare possible and they actually, when they go to even social events, work events, they have to take security with them. It's got to that stage. And actually when you actually see the, the lobbying that these activists are promoting, the whole message is go vegan. So they are saying that it's, we want people to all go free range and what they perceive as high welfare, but actually they're not going to be happy until everyone is vegan, which means they're taking away the actual, they're trying to take away the choice of consumers to buy animal products which they love and which we all know are healthy and a key part of any healthy diet. So it's sometimes you're dealing with people that are saying one thing in the press, but actually they've got a deeper meaning behind it 100%. [00:12:34] Speaker A: But it comes, I think what you're saying there, like the veganism is, how can you say it's not sounding too controversial, but sometimes veganism can come across as extremism. It's, it's either their way or no way. And I'm not, I'm not sort of having to go vegans here at all. But the stuff that gets in the press, the stuff, the people that shout the loudest, it is, it is, it is like a form of, you know, extremism. It really is because there is no middle ground, there is no talking about it, you know, and you know, I've experienced stuff on, on my social media when, you know, I've woke up in the morning to find God knows how many messages and calling me all sorts of names under the sun. There's no point, there's no point talking to them about it. Just delete it, move on. Because you're not going to change that opinion. That opinion is, is there? And it's never Ever, ever going to change. And, and I think you just, you know, you have to accept that. But I think what probably needs to happen and we'll move away from this subject. Is that it, you know, the farming press make, need to make sure they don't really give it any sort of. [00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Airtime. You know, they, they need the farming press. You know, we're trying to do a positive, positive podcast. Well, the farming press need to be doing some positive stuff as well. [00:13:55] Speaker C: On the point about veganism, I think I've said this before. I found, came here when I was 15, growing up in Kenya, always lived around people that are different in the sense of Muslims having, having to eat halal meat. Had Indus in my class that wouldn't eat me, would eat sort of things about beef. Southern tribes in Kenya probably don't eat pork or I don't eat. They eat goat and all those things. People don't eat duck, they only eat chicken. Growing up with that, you understand that people are different. One person can eat this, one box can eat that. We don't have to agree, we can all coexist. But I think the point you, you both make there about an element of militancy when it comes to some. I don't get it. Like, I remember 20, 20, 22 on my birthday, I'd gone to the abattoir Tanas, which is now shut. Nice one government. And I turned up and I think once a month you'd have activists at the abattoir sort of kicking off and blocking. Which the first question you ask yourself is, it's a bit too late to be activating or activism at the abattoir because no farmer is going to turn off and be like, oh, you're blocking the gate. Let me go back to the farm. And with these animals, there's too late there. How about you go to supermarket and stand there and tell people if, if you want to do this, go to the supermarket. Okay, don't eat meat, blah, blah, blah. And then that works with the chain, but that's a site. So I dropped off the pigs pulled up and I said, excuse me, is it okay if we have a chat? And initially sat animal. Well, probably because of previous experiences, they faced animosity. I was like, is it okay to have a chat? Yeah, already I'm. They're. They're above me because I'm a meat eater. I'm below them. Okay, that's fine, let's talk. I was there for 45 minutes. 45 minutes. One of them did not let me finish a sentence. Every time I said something he had announced, every time I said he had an answer, that's just fine. Luckily there was two or three that I shook their hands when I left. I said, yes, we're not going to agree, but that's fine. You've heard my point, I've had your point and we both had a chance. I've learned something from you. You probably learned something from me, a mere mortal that's below you. But one question I remember asking him is like, I admire your energy and your persistence in doing this, but the UK has how many people? 66 million now? Maybe. Are we probably close to 70? Right, so you've got Africa, you've got South America, you've got North America, you've got Asia, Middle east, oz, New Zealand. These are all areas like, let's say something like China. These are all areas where meat is eaten to a high level. Do these people in the UK that are being sort of activists about say, don't eat meat, go vegan? Do they think they can turn the whole world vegan by their actions? And if you've got that much energy, why, why should we not strive in things that actually possible, like reducing food wastage or trying to el wild hunger? Things are actually gonna benefit a lot of people because what's the percentage of vegans in the world? Not that I understand. We eat a lot of meat that I get. We need to eat less meat. I understand. I have a balanced diet, but having someone look me in the eye and tell me the world is going to be vegan. If the world is vegan, I'm the last. I'll be the last person. I don't know you, Neil, you'll be there too. Chris will be there too, my dad will be there too, my sister and plenty of other people I know. So it's more about a balanced diet rather than just demonizing meat and saying you shouldn't eat meat or. So tiring, man. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I just think as well like we, the government and, and this isn't just in the uk, but other governments, there needs to be stricter punishments on sort of blasphemy of, of production methods and obviously breaking in as well. Like, farmers are constantly living in fear about people breaking into your farm and taking videos. Like, yes, we need to be open and, and be proud of what we're producing and how we're producing it. But also, if that had happened, the same with the Cranswick farm. And actually, big props to Cranswick for how they've dealt with it. I Think they've dealt with it very professionally. They said, look, there was an error. And look, we're a company and I know people that work at Cranswick, the good people. There was an error made. There was somebody that came in with a camera and did it. But if you broke into someone's house and did the same in someone's house and film something, you, you would be prosecuted. Like, there needs to be stricter rules that people just can't think they can break into other people's property and, and, and, and sort of even, even you could go into any farm and you could find an ill animal or an animal that is, is struggling, that's having an off day and make something look terrible. [00:19:35] Speaker A: That's, that's the thing. It's how you, how you perceive, you know, what you're filming and how you put it across. You know that that is a thing, but, you know. Yeah, it's something that needs to change. I think you made a really good point, Chris, about there needs to be protection for farmers that if somebody does break in to their farm and, you know, you're saying if someone break into your house and put a camera in your bathroom or in your bedroom or something, they'll be hell to pay. But it's absolutely fine if you break in somebody's farm and put a camera in the shed. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially in Flav's house when you see all the hair in the bathroom that he's losing. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Yeah. There'll be a lot of products in there as well. [00:20:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:15] Speaker C: Actually, actually, I need, I need more products. Actually. I need. I just need some cocomata for my hair. [00:20:21] Speaker A: You need more hair. [00:20:24] Speaker B: You need to go to turkey, mate. Now. You don't need. You definitely don't need the turkey tea. [00:20:34] Speaker C: Point of saying, if people are to come in getting farms and putting cameras again, this is something that comes by every year where you, you, you get these campaigns, like, I think, I think they, they have a place and I think they're good. So let's say something like open farm Sunday once a year, you have that back British farming, 24 hours thing. Farm 24, that's another one. Like. But if you look, that's two. Two big ones without any. If you can think. I can't think of any now, but that's two big ones. So in 365 or 66 days in a year, we've got two days. Two days where the public have all access to the farm and they're eating food every day. [00:21:26] Speaker A: But there is a lot more positivity because a lot, you know, there is a lot of good social media out there. There's a lot of, you know, farmers putting some good content and it's actually some of the farmers that haven't got 12 million followers, it's some of those smaller guys that are, you know, putting up. But on the other side of the social media thing, you know, a lot of farmers, you know, some of my best farms I deal with do not do anything on social media because they just don't have the time. [00:21:58] Speaker C: No, it's not so much about social media because I think that's, that's, that's, that's good. But you need to have the skills, you need to have the time, you need to have the. They want because you, you're going to open yourself to all sorts of stuff. Like you, you probably, you faced it. But I think for me this is probably, I think for agricultural organizations because we can't expect a 70 year old that all they want to do is farm to go and show their cows on, on, on social media, whatever. But why, I'm sure these organizations have the, the talent in their teams and a bit of money to showcase the agriculture industry in a good way. Because we can't, we can't leave it to TV because Country File used to do that thing with, with young farmers. How did that go? That lasted what, a year or two gone? We got a message getting told now that's taking too much time, scrap it. So that's gone. So they clearly don't care. So we, we, we as an agricultural industry, whether it's a few of us are on social media, we need to take, take, we need to take the, this thing or let's call it a proverbial bull by the horns and sort of ourselves because no one is going to come and help us. We need to do it ourselves. And yes, it might take some, some investment at the start to get it going. But could you imagine Even if it's 60, 70% of the population that had us like the way Francis, like they had farmers, they had farmers backs regardless, could you imagine how much better the farming community would be or like how much better the farming industry would be with, with, with knowing that all 60 or 70 of the population has got your back all the time? Because now farmers protest in London. Oh, look at them in all their fancy tractors. Inheritance. Oh well, I've got to pay tax for my house. So, so the public actually don't care because even another one I said on a comment I put on LinkedIn about this back British farming. If you ask, if you ask the public, the Wallace don't give a. About British public or about British farming. [00:24:14] Speaker A: They don't care a little bit. [00:24:23] Speaker C: So if you think, how long has backward is farming been going? That, that slogan. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Oh, not, not long. [00:24:30] Speaker C: It is long. [00:24:31] Speaker A: I saw. Yeah, a long, long time. [00:24:33] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Why do we still need to hop it on? Because if, if like Nike, Nike doesn't always say just do it. It's just there because it works. Reminding people, because they don't back us. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Yeah, but Flav, you've got a farm and you, you know, you, you, you have people coming onto your farm and you will, you know, you're like, you always say, anyone's welcome, come and have a look. You got nothing to hide, you'll show them all the bits and pieces and people love that about you, that there is somebody there. So people are not, you know, you haven't got 65 million people coming around. But I generally think, you know, through social media, through Clarkson's farm, through these high profile things, people actually farming, like from a public perspective, they actually think farming is actually a really good place. I really do, you know, I can go into the service station, I've got a crush on the back and everyone, you know, there isn't a day that goes by people, oh, what's that? And you'll say, oh yeah, yeah, I know because they might have seen it on YouTube somewhere. They might have seen it and people know. So I, I actually, I disagree with you there. [00:25:38] Speaker C: I think so. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that farming is in a good place. I'm just saying that we rely on one or two people or wait until hits a fan, then we do something. We're not, we're not proactive in the industry. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say though, right, if you, if so, if you're a, you're what some people would call a larger farm and you're producing a lot of food, like with, with all the stuff that's going on with what's happened at Cranswick and, and like I just said about that Canadian business, Canadian family business. Is the risk not bigger than the reward of being on social media? Like, because, and, and really promoting it, if you go out and really promote it, you are opening yourselves up to these activists much more because you're putting your name out there, you are saying things. So it's, it's a very big decision for commercial agricultural businesses actually to, to do that because you are opening yourself up which the, the potential Threats to your sales, to you, if you. Yeah. Even your share price or something like that. Where actually it's, it's very difficult. And that's where I think, where maybe the government, like farming unions. Yeah, we all have our frustrations. They do try, but we somehow need to get. Yeah, maybe whether it's the, the sort of. The celebrity side with like Clarkson. [00:27:11] Speaker A: What. [00:27:12] Speaker B: Some people won't like him at all, but he's done such an amazing job. Like we've all said before about actually bringing farming to the dinner table and people actually talk, discussing farming and the positives and the fact that how it's. It's not all just skiing and, and, and, and playing rugby and stuff like that. It's. It's. It's hard work and you do it for the love of it. But it's. Yeah, it's. I just don't think it's as easy as everybody just promoting themselves because the risks are getting, Are getting much higher. [00:27:46] Speaker C: So. Chris, it's not. I don't think it's about results. Like, you say that rightly so someone like my size promoting myself compared to someone with like a million birds or whatever, that's. That's a completely different ballpark ball game. I mean, but my, My thinking is if six or seven big processes, let's say in the pig sector, you've got Cranswick, you've got bqp, you've got these others. If we're all on the same page that look, okay, we've got the highest welfare in the world. Tick. We do the best for animals. Tick. Let's all show the public what we do. Like, even when I was at Plumpton, I used to put videos of sows in crates. This is in a crate, because if you don't put it in a crate, it lays on a piglet. When it's. When I was outdoors at Newlands, I remember a guilt fired outside by the feeder, killed 10. I put that online. That's got 6 million views. People saw it, people argued in the comments. But ultimately, one thing we, us as farmers need to tell the public is this. Farmers don't do things for their own health. They do it because it's supply and demand. If people want to pay £3 for chickens, a farmer produce a chicken for three good people to pay. If you want to pay £10 for chicken, a farmer will produce chicken free for £10. So actually, when farmers have fingers pointed at them when, when we speak to the public in a, In a frank way, actually, they're the reason why farmers are doing what they're doing because you're paying for it. If, if the public were to say we're not buying any chicken that's less than a fiverr, would farmers produce? No, you produce something else. So I think the public can want to be as far removed as they want. And a lot of them now are getting more involved, like the number of customers that come here and say, do you have bacon that's nitrite free. I'm currently curing bacon that's nitrite free. We want sausages that are sulfite free. We want necessity. People are reading about what they're eating, etc. Which is good for me, I think. But yeah, I think we can go on and say, oh, farmers need to do this, farmer needs to do that. But actually, let's flip it. How about the public, you're putting that thing in your mouth, you're paying for it. So don't blame the farmer for producing it because you're buying it. So the farmer. Actually I don't want, I don't want a caged egg, okay, A chick, an egg for my cage chicken. I want an egg for my free range chicken. Oh, that's going to cost you an extra 60p. Okay, I'll pay 60p. There you go. [00:30:16] Speaker A: But then that's an issue, isn't it? Because there is a demand there. You know, we've got a massively growing population, we're on a rock which isn't going to grow at the same rate either. So we have less and less land because we're chucking houses on all over them. And that's a whole different subject. So we need to produce food as efficiently as possible in a really small bit of land, don't we? I mean, that's essentially it. And we also need to know, produce food cheaply because, you know, a lot of people, they, they can't afford to go and buy, you know, their, their cheap source of protein is that 4 pound chicken in a soup in Tesco's and supermarket. That's their source of, you know, they're getting, and this is a whole, you know, we spoken in the last series or series for that about, you know, processed foods and all the rest of it and trying to educate people to eat whole foods and don't eat, you know, this little processed stuff. But unfortunately people do and people have to source their food quite cheaply because people are shopping on a budget. So yeah, you know, they can't afford to go and buy some lovely, you know, you know, some Nice free range eggs or some nice marble wagyu beef. You know, people haven't got that option. They have to buy it, have to buy on a budget and that's the thing. So farming then gears itself to supply that demand because end of day farming is all about supply and demand. And if there's a demand there for cheap chicken, you know we were talking earlier before we started recording about, you know, I live in Herefordshire and the amount of poultry that's 15 million birds on the river wide catchment. It's ridiculous. But there's a demand there for it. They're not there just for the fun of it. They are, you know, they're there because there's a demand for that cheap poultry meat and that's not going to change. You know, that's the thing that isn't going to change. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Yeah, like I always go back to the fact that I know like we mentioned about caged eggs and, and, and cages but like knowing the poultry industry well it's, it's how it's, it's, it's often perceived welfare. Actually I've been to many cage houses and I actually knowing poultry well could argue that some of the, some of the welfare and some of the caged houses is, is, is absolutely second to none. The, the fact for example cage tags maybe versus free range which is also a great system like you use very little antibiotics. So it's, so it's a bit of a weighing up. And like it's interesting in, in some states in America, Iowa for example, they, they've passed a state law that there will always be an affordable egg option on offer. So they have realized that their population, some of their population would like to buy a free range egg or a cage free egg or whatever. But, but also there is people in their, in their society that, that need to be buying efficiently produced food on a budget and something that they can afford because that, yeah, some, some people might say they want to buy free range chicken but actually they, they will when they're actually in the supermarket will buy indoor chicken. And, and I think we should be proud of all different, we should be proud of all different types of production. And actually I always find the, the, what people would try and market is the higher end product products, the free range or the organic actually really need the value egg to be able to market as a higher product. If you look at eggs for example, when we now have such a high proportion of, of eggs that are free range, around 70, 80%. So there is significant setup costs for farmers in Putting up a free range shed and actually it's now a commodity product. So you are investing in different welfare advice that is dictated to you by groups like the RSPCA and you're still a commodity product. So I think it's important that in farming we produce the right product for consumers and keep that connection with consumers on cost and production methods. [00:34:49] Speaker C: So there. Chris, I think, personally, I think it's good that free range in eggs is seen as a commodity product now, even though I hate the term commodity because again, back to the thing, we keep bleeding as British farmers, we've got the highest welfare in the world. Surely our base standard should be that, yes, we live on an island, we don't have enough land, we can't all be free range. So that's always something. I always remind people that, look, we want free range, but you're an island, like you can't have everything outside because you'd have probably half some of the animals we have in this country to be able to have them all outside the, the point. You mentioned a lot here about cost and we, we have to produce food cheaply. I think, Neil, you mentioned we don't have to though, like, that's how the system has set it up. Because why is it the farmer that's now having to bear the brunt of people not affording food? The mine is an engineer. He sent a thing in our group the other day saying that something that's. Oh, I think, I think it was NatWest. Yeah, it's from a bank. I don't know how he did it, but he said 50k now in 2020, the equivalent to 39,000 and something. So you think the way the economy is going, the way things are going, why is it that every year train tickets go up? Every year train tickets go up. You look at things like pints, pints are going up. But we're constantly pushing food down. Without pints, we can still survive on healthy food. So why isn't food seen as such an important thing that we, we, we, we, we're always looking at food and producing food on a lease cost, on a lease cost basis all the time and not focusing on it. We've got an NHS that people are constantly saying, oh, NHS is struggling, NHS is struggling. Meanwhile, we're not encouraging people to eat well, we're not encouraging people to live lifestyles that are encouraged, that are going to lead to a healthy lifestyle to reduce stress on, on, on the national health system. So it's almost like, and I said this before, we know the problems, we know the solutions, but we're choosing to avoid to get those solutions. We're just creating barriers to slow us down. The solution. [00:37:20] Speaker B: Like, but why someone to buy a free R? Like, why? Yeah, if somebody wanted to buy a caged egg and they understand that method, why should they not? [00:37:31] Speaker C: Yeah. So my, at the point I was going to go on to there next is that it's good that we have options for people. So it, it's not about forcing. And that's why I think the openness in the industry is someone will say, like I'll say to someone, okay, you want bacon that's nitrite free. Okay. The reason for nitrite is abc, blah, blah, blah. If you take nitrite out, there's a chance that that bacon won't look pink, it will look a bit darkened. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just because there's no nitrite. Are you okay with that? Yes, that's fine. Or someone will say, oh, I like pork, that's from a rare breed pig, that's fine. There's a chance that would be more fatty than the pork you buy from the supermarket. Are you okay with that? Yes. There you go. So if people are making informed decisions to what they're buying, that's fine. But if we're going to rely on, let's say, adverts from supermarkets, mainly driven by the price rather than actually what you're producing. Because as a farmer, if I'm telling someone about what I'm producing, I'm eating that thing, I care about it, I took it to the abattoir, I'm butchering it, I care about it so much. If you're someone that's in charge of the marketing of a big supermarket chain, you probably, you never even seen the animal. So you're just pushing adverts to make sure your sales go up. [00:38:54] Speaker A: All of that. I think that that's, that's like in an ideal world, all of that, because people, I think it all just comes back down to the whole thing that people haven't got time to come and talk to Flab the pig farmer and ask him whether the bacon's got some sulfites and nitrate in and stuff like that. That's, that's the. [00:39:11] Speaker C: They do. Why not? Why not, like we need to make interesting. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Because people, a lot of people generally are not, you know, don't have an interest in, unfortunately. And it's a real shit shame of affairs that people do not have an interest. A lot of people do not have an interest where the food comes from. I think more people do. I think it's increasing, I think it's increasing and I think things like Clarkson Farm and social media and all this sort of stuff highlights where people's food come from and high profile stuff. And all of a sudden farms are a little bit more accessible, whether that be through social media or be through Open Farm Sunday or farming, all these different things. But there's a massive proportion of the population that say, right, we've got 100 quid to spend this week on food and they're going to buy as much food as they can for that 100 quid. [00:40:11] Speaker C: Yeah, because they've not been given that opportunity. They've not been given that opportunity or their, their minds open to. Okay, if you buy a chicken, you don't have to eat the whole basset thing. You can have it as a roast, you can keep the carcass and make stock, you can keep the breast and make sandwiches, all those things. When I was at school in Kenya, we did home science. We had like, even here I did food tech. I know there's so many people in this country, the reason they go for things in cans and tins, aside from the fact they can't afford it because your minimum wage, blah, blah, bl that, which things, farmers problems, we can't deal with that, is that people don't know how to cook. That's another issue. Even me. [00:40:53] Speaker B: That's a big issue. Fluffy. Yeah, that's massive. [00:40:56] Speaker A: I mean, you're coming from a, from a, you know, you're coming from a different education system where you've been taught a lot of stuff and you're bringing a lot of passion. Most 15 year old kids, if we're going back to you and you know, you arrived here at 15, wouldn't probably have the same level of knowledge about food than what you did. [00:41:15] Speaker C: So on that point, Neil, on that point, most people that started watching Clarkson's Farm didn't give a about farming. But sadly on season four, every Tom, Dick and Harry is raving about it and Melissa and whoever, everyone's raving about it now. So let's not accept the current state of affairs as a norm. It's a norm. We're in it now, but there is opportunity to change it in the future. Let's, like Chris says, give people options. Caged egg. This is what it looks like. You go to a farm, you see a ca chicken. If you don't like it, don't buy it. And if many people don't buy caged eggs. Cage egg farmers don't make money. They'll be like, oh, everyone's buying free range. Let's change our farm. So the consumer needs to be leading it because we can't, like, as consumers. You can't point consumers being, let's say, even some of those activists. I'm pretty sure those people, whatever food they eat has to come from a farm. And do they follow where the runner beans come from? Do they follow where their almonds come from? Do they follow where the avocado comes from? I bet they don't. But just you're looking at it from a. An emotional side rather than objective side. And this is something. This is something. What's his name? We had him on the show, on the show, on the podcast. There's something Elan said on LinkedIn about the Humane slaughter thing. He said, when it comes to slaughtering or humane slaughter, people need to be objective when they talk about it rather than being emotional. And I think it's the same with veganism. Like, we need to be objective about it. If we talk about ethical food production. Let's talk about ethical food production. If we're talking about loss of life, then that's different because you can't tell me you're going to kick. Kick me for taking animals to the abattoir in taking pixie abatton, butchering them and eating them. But you're happy to sit there munching on your hummus and falafel whilst watching a lion chase and a w. Beast and. And. And David Attenborough narrating it. It's nature, these food, food chains, food webs. We did in biology. If people don't understand that, then I generally don't. I can't have a conversation with someone like that. Like, we're on this planet as omnivores. We have these. And if we didn't eat beef, there won't be that many cows. They won't exist. They won't be skipping around in fields outside, would they? All chickens. [00:43:34] Speaker A: So. No. [00:43:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Anyway, we're rattling on there. I think we've covered quite a few. A bit of stuff. I think there's probably a lot more stuff we do want to. We want to cover, isn't it? [00:43:46] Speaker C: That was a good one back from Jean. [00:43:48] Speaker A: I think we get. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Yeah, we're getting. We're getting rallied up again. [00:43:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So if you want to listen to a. A balding chap from Kenya talk about his. [00:43:59] Speaker B: Actually, it's a real niche. Yeah, he's a. He's a high end value product. [00:44:04] Speaker A: It is. [00:44:05] Speaker B: He's a niche product. [00:44:07] Speaker C: A bald Kenyan man. Disaggr. [00:44:12] Speaker A: You want to change your Instagram, rather, from the Kenyan pig farmer to the bald Kenyan pig farmer. [00:44:17] Speaker B: The b Kenyan pig farmer. [00:44:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:28] Speaker B: It's good to be back, guys. [00:44:30] Speaker A: It is. Tuning again for more flav abuse. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Late every time. Flav. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least we don't have to sit and watch you eat for the last hour anyway, so that was a bonus. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:47] Speaker A: Cheers. [00:44:49] Speaker B: Cheers, guys. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Soon a bit.